As tempting as it is, any savvy internet geek knows that you should never feed the trolls. Getting a rise is the food they thrive on. The fact that they’ve managed to get under the skin of their victims is the sole reason they exist. The clever thing to do, as shown by my very dear friend, Isabel Fay, is to laugh at them.
And so laugh I will. Or rather, if you’ll allow me the indulgence, I’ll discuss accusations and write a long ranty blog post about it.
As I’ve said numerous times to numerous people, I’ve never seen myself as a feminist. To me, feminism has always been something that I didn’t quite understand. Maybe this is through my own ignorance, maybe it’s because I didn’t want to explore it deeper, maybe it’s because I have my own views that I’m happy with.
I believe in equal rights for women. I do not believe that women should be somehow pushed ahead and gain favour because they are women. This is my view on most -isms. Equality, not positive discrimination. Positive or not, it’s still discrimination. We’re born how we’re born, we all have our good points, our bad points, our points in between. We should be judged on an equal footing with everyone else and their foibles.
I digress (a little). Anyway, so recently, I’ve got to know Ashley and the other ladies who make up AWOT – Awesome Women on Twitter. I talk to them on twitter, I meet up with them and force wine on them, I gossip, email, and laugh with them. They encourage me, listen to me, reassure me, disagree with me, mentally slap me ’round the face when I need it, and generally act as all friends should. A good thing, all in all.
One of the great things about this group of women is the differing views we have. Not only on feminism, not only on the role of women in society, but also which is the best gin (Hendrick’s by the way), how to get the best shine in our hair (some swear by horse shampoo – I’m not convinced it would work for me), the best way to get from Bank to Wimbledon Common (I’m lazy so it’s going to be whichever way’s the quickest!), whether Ryan Gosling is the most perfect human specimen on earth (he is). You know, normal things.
However, ultimately, differing opinions matter not. We’re all the same. We’re all awesome. We’re all women. We’re all friends.
Healthy debate and lively conversation is a good thing. (Can you imagine how dull life would be if we all agreed the whole time?) For the most part, if people have an opinion that is different to me, I’ll take up the challenge and discuss it with them but, in the end, an opinion is an opinion and that’s that. We all have them. We are all allowed to have them. That right cannot be taken away. Agree to disagree etc.
However (and there had to be a however) when opinion dissolves into character slurs, then I feel that I should have the right to reply.
The AWOT website has a pretty open posting policy. It states:
Absolutely anyone is welcome to post on teamawot.com on any topic (bar that of batteries), though the editor retains the right to reject any post.
So, when AWOT was approached by an unknown twitter follower asking whether they could post an article, the response was simple.
if you have a well reasoned and supported argument then yes – but I will not publish trolling disguised as free will
Furry muff. The link to prove the “well reasoned and supported argument” led to a post which, after a cursory read, I declared that there was little to warrant the terms “reasoned” or “supported”. The post was a rant. A slightly strange rant with views which, for the most part, would be seen as a tad extreme for the majority of the population.
Twitter being the wonderful, open place it is, it seemed that my analysis of the blog post was not appreciated by the author. Despite her contesting that I was a “KOOL COW” and that she wanted to “wrestle” with me, I logged onto twitter this morning to be pointed towards not one, but two blog posts which had been written about me.
Now, I know better than to link from here. (Come now, it’s like how you have to write a warning whenever you link to the Daily Mail.) I will, however, outline the key accusations levelled at me and, because I can, try and respond.
A waste of a woman’s life. How many more like her?
As a title of a blog post, I quite like it. It has a strong beginning, it asks the readers a question, it encourages debate. Carry on.
<link to my blog about page>
Although I doubt you have many readers, thanks for the linky love. Shows manners.
This woman seems intelligent and good-natured enough, but she is a slut. Any old fuck buddy from her university days can send her a text after a casual meeting asking “Fancy a fuck?” and she will say yes.
Intelligent, good natured, yes – I am both of these things. A slut? Come now. The implication in this sentence (as also seen in a comment left on my last post on friends with benefits) is that any woman who likes to have sex (even if, God forbid, they don’t expect the man to even buy them a drink for the privilege) is a slut. Really? Are there women out there who hate other women so much? As I said, equality. If men are allowed to enjoy sex, why can’t women? Surely sex is better for all involved if both parties are into it? Leaving aside the implication that men have to buy sex with a drink or dinner, the insinuation that having a sexual relationship with no strings attached makes one a slut is, I believe, a painfully old fashioned view. Something backed up by the copious references to “bastards” and children born “out of wedlock” on the website.
The terrible tragedy of it all is that a woman like this was once a friend of mine. She did get lucky and managed to get married though her gonorrhea had made her sterile .
What a lucky friend! She managed to get married! In spite of the fact she had gonorrhea [sic]. Well, praise the Lord, there are some kindly folk out there who’ll take pity on us slutty types.
Frances Rebecca will probably never grow up and will drink more and more gin as she gets older. Her friends will laugh with her and perhaps sometimes at her as she gets older and drunker and acquires more cats.
As much as I would love stay young forever (it would take the role of cougar to another level, don’t you think), all of us have to grow up sometime. I have grown up immeasurably in the last few years and it’s likely I will continue to do so. That’s what maturity and changing priorities brings. Yes, it’s probable I will continue to drink gin. Yes, it’s probable that my friends will continue to laugh with, and continue to laugh at me. That’s what friends do.
She tells herself she does not care for children, but perhaps most of us cannot bear children if they are not our own. If she did have offspring she would surely feel the whole gamut of all the sublime maternal emotions, but this state of married motherhood is now only the privilege of a select few in the matriarchal West.
Honestly, I really don’t care for children. At least, not until they’re at the age where you can have a conversation with them. Yes, no doubt, if I had one of the things, I’d grow to love and coo over the endless puking and pooing and screaming. I am, after all, human.
The assertion that the state of married motherhood is the privilege of a few is slightly bizarre. It’s true, there are many people who have children out of marriage. There are those who don’t want to get married to their significant other, there are those who *can’t* get married but still want children (oi, equality laws, get a move on) and there are those who want children but don’t have both requisite parts. However, in a lot of countries, and a lot of cultures, getting married before having children is still seen as the norm. Neither way is the *right* way. They’re just different ways.
She is not completely stupid as she managed to get a degree in English at a good university and even learnt Latin at her private school, but perhaps, if she had managed to find a husband at the appropriate time and become a mother she could have passed her genes on.
As we know, my sole purpose in life is to pass my genes on. It is, after all, why I read English at University and learnt Latin.
I’m not sure what time the “appropriate” time is for finding a husband. Was it at 18 when I had just started University. Maybe my University boyfriends should now be my husbands? Maybe N. Maybe I should have stuck with that one? Obviously, now I’m 30, I’m totally over the hill. I should just get my wimple out.
Sadly, for her and the next generation, it sounds like she already has a drink problem. It will probably not get better for her the way things are going.
I find it interesting that, because I go out, because most of the things I blog about happen after a couple of glasses of wine (or gin, I suppose), the natural conclusion is a drink problem. I know people with drink problems.. I know people who, on cleaning up a spilt drink, found themselves sucking the mop to get at the alcohol. I agree, there seems to be a prevalence of binge or bust drinking among those a little younger than me. This is not a new problem – ’twas ever thus – and doesn’t mean that the next generation has a drink problem. It means they have a problem with their drinking.
She is yet another victim of feminism – yet another tragic unwitting victim. This must stop before more lives are wasted. The Aztecs practised human sacrifice, but surely what we do now is a form of human sacrifice too?
I’m not sure how I’m a victim of feminism. If anything, I’m an example of how the feminist movement has progressed society and societal attitudes. I’m educated, earning a good wage. I live on my own and provide for myself. I am confident and able to stand up for what I believe in. I vote and take a healthy interest in politics. I treat those around me as my equal. Win all round, I’d say.
Let us have fewer women called Frances and Rebecca take to gin and mother’s ruin. Let us have more women called Frances and Rebecca married with children.
I’m not sure what the focus on my middle names is (a laziness perhaps? Latching onto the fact that I went to public school and have “posh” middle names as another reason why my downfall such a sad indictment on society?) however, what the author fails to take into account is that ultimately, it’s all about choice.
A woman is not defined by her husband and ability to procreate. She is defined by her character, her ambitions, her dreams, her hopes, her successes, her failings, the people around her, her family, her lack of family… A woman is the sum of the choices she decides to make and her right to make them.
A woman is defined by who she is, nothing more, nothing less.
A great read as always. I always respect your honesty and forthrightness, and I think you have a healthy attitude towards modern living, equality and all those sorts of related issues. And you’re not afraid to stand up for your opinions.
Not sure I have that much more to add, really, but keep being who you are, because who you are is AWESOME. Yeah.
Thanks Pete – appreciate it. I like to think I’m pretty cool but it’s always nice when other people tell you
On a more serious note, I don’t think there’s anything special about my views and I welcome any arguments against them. I just don’t like people who, instead of arguing a point, descend to name calling.
That’s a good point, and one I agree with wholeheartedly. While I support the push for equality, I do think that a lot of people go about arguing their points in completely the wrong way. I appreciate that a lot of people feel hugely strongly about these issues — and quite rightly so — but shouting, screaming, yelling and calling names doesn’t help move the discussion forward. It just makes both sides more defensive, causing them both to dig their heels in. Counter-productive.
I would go further and state we are all defined by those same pertinent points made at the end … regardless of gender,sexuality,race or age ….. Enjoyed the read cheers
Cheers Shaun. And yes, you’re right, of course. I’d love to think that everyone was defined by the same parameters. For the point of this rant, however, I was sticking to women.
Hope to see you again soon!
A) On that basis, I would totally define you as feminist, but that’s another argument for another time.
B) Very well put (although I’m in the ‘not feeding’ camp, this is an elegant rebuttal. Hopefully she’ll sod off elsewhere to annoy other people).
C) Pony shampoo totally works.
A) Seconded
B) Seconded
C) Seconded
a) see below
b) see below
c) see below
a) an argument that I’d be happy to have with you one day over a glass of wine
b) I normally don’t feed either, but in this instance, her sweeping generalisations annoyed me. Even before the blog posts, I was going to write something based on her comment to my last post.
c) I think my hair’s too short. I’m willing to be wrong though.
I don’t even have to buy you a drink? Amazeballs!
Great post, great rebuttal – I am with Blonde though, you are a feminist and long shampoo totes works
*You* might have to buy me a drink
Do you use pony shampoo too?!
I don’t even have any words for that. How do these people find the time?!
Determination and lack of sleep?!
Holy crap! I’m struggling to form any kind of coherent response to her completely bizarre statements. All the more impressed with you for the wonderful rebuttal!
I’m just going to go sit in a corner and shake my head for a while. Does not compute.
But, go you! x
Do not under-estimate the poo – a had a jet stream of it at 1 this morning. Live the dream……
Normal people of the world unite. The fact that these crazy loons, who judge others based on their own parents point of view of how the world works, have a voice is how the world is going to pot! I’m off for a drink. That’s when all the usually interesting stories of my life happen. If that makes me an alccy then bravo! More please!
Any way – I’m not an alccy. They go to meetings. I’m a drunk!
Oh dear. So many people I know have a drink problem. Another sign of Western degeneracy!
I use pony shampoo. I am not a female. I think you are full of awes.
That’s all I have for you. x
I wish people wouldn’t call me a troll, as if I say things just to annoy and hurt people gratuitously. I do genuinely believe what I say and I am not just doing it to hurt your feelings, NuttyCow!
You have to acknowledge that all that guff about free speech at AWOT was just guff though.
http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/awot-are-women-who-claim-to-but-do-not.html is my post about the whole thing including the three links I posted to AWOT that I still contend are reasoned arguments.
As for who is a slut, I have given my analysis at http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/degrees-of-sluttery.html
I am OK with sluts really, since technically a slut is a fornicatress and a fornicatress is someone who has sex with a man not her husband, which does rather cast the net very wide.
The difference between a slut and an SSM is the difference between a suspected criminal and a convicted criminal. The crime in question is the degeneracy a woman would cause her society in the long term by making bad reproductive choices.
Therefore the evil this prohibition is meant to prevent is the evil of widespread illegitimacy.
SSMs (mothers of illegitimate offspring) should be denounced at every opportunity to discourage them to the extent of making it a criminal offence deserving of the corporal punishment of 100 lashes as prescribed by the Koran.
I know this does sound rather harsh, but it is probably the only thing that could discourage most women in the West from becoming SSMs now and stop them dead in their slutty footsteps.
“SSMs (mothers of illegitimate offspring) should be denounced at every opportunity to discourage them to the extent of making it a criminal offence deserving of the corporal punishment of 100 lashes as prescribed by the Koran.”
If their mother’s deserve such punishment, what about the illegimate offspring? Stoned to death?
Jebus, my life is worthless as my SSM gave birth to me without a husband. Btw I don’t think I would have responded to you with anywhere near the same class that Nutty Cow has.
Please note that because you are being such a good sport by allowing me to post on your blog, I have linked your blog to mine.
At least *you* understand that free speech, which is more than that Ashley did at AWOT! xx
We are all defined by our achievements as well as our friends and family. Having offspring means that even if we ourselves did not manage to achieve our ambitions, there is the theoretical possibility that our offspring and descendants might make something of themselves.
Having offspring paradoxically keeps us young too, I would venture to say.
I wonder if there is anything I can do to get you married before you drink too much gin! I have always longed to run a marriage bureau.
I am rather partial to Bombay Saphire myself myself but doubtless will be persona non grata at your gin evening on 8 November at 6.30 or I would come along too.
What an excellent post, if you must feed do it like this. While I find it normal for people to have opinions on your (or my or anyones ) blog posts I fail to see how anyone believes they can make a judgement on you as a person based on either those or twitter.
Surely in the age of social media saturation no-one truly believes they are getting a full picture from what they see online, therefore to judge you fully based on the internet is not only naive but could eventually become dangerous.
In terms of feminism I have been considering this more and more, thank in part to the fabulous work of AWOT and The Vagenda, and agree with you completely – being a feminist to me is to understand that equality between the sexes and ensure that you treat everyone with respect and consideration.
Finally the notion that liking good gin and disliking children being something sad and not befitting a proper woman I find truly offensive. I have no issue with those who prize marriage and children so what gives someone else the right to say the belittle the life choices I make when they don’t match
I am putting it to you all that feminism is not in the long-term national interest. I do not think it is sustainable to allow women to do men’s jobs badly while neglecting their own work. The decline of Western civilisation can be attributed to the elevating of this pernicious notion into government policy all over the West.
What is happening now is that women in the West are not having enough children and not bringing up properly what children they do have.
It would be nice to get a sensible discussion out of you lot since you are all being so wonderfully polite and reasonable.
Thank you again, HolyCow, for suffering my comments on your blog! xx
I kiss your hooves in gratitude.
Good Lord! What WAS the post that you’re analysing? I occasionally read AWOT (I really shouldn’t, I should be writing a book, ho hum), but missed that post. From your précis, it sounds weird.
As a card-carrying feminazi who was blooded in a consciousness raising group when I was of tender age at university back in the er — dark ages — I would like to persuade you about feminism, but actually, you don’t need much persuading really!
And I haven’t tried the pony shampoo yet. Mostly because of said book I’m not-writing, I rarely leave the house or get out of pyjamas, except to badger estate agents to sell me my dream house.
But crikey, what a post to read about yourself! You are dealing with it with exemplary good humour.
Yes, isn’t she just, Redbookish! I think NuttyCow is a good kind person and should pass her genes on. I will do my best to help. I will even become her Romantic Consultant.
OMActualG, have just followed links. I need to wash out my computer, and my brain.
That’s more like it, Redbookish! The way you were all responding suggested you hadn’t followed the links!
nomnomnom
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nom%20nom%20nom explains nomnomnom. Cute!
Seriously who is this lunatic? Genuinely weirded out by her apparent obliviousness to normailty and manners. The fact that all her weird comments of judgement she tries to hide behind over the top friendliness is very odd. Jog on you weirdo.
I need a drink!
Oh dear… it’s the internet equivalent of being cornered by a nutter at a bus stop. Hopefully at some point she’ll get so fed up of “the West” that she’ll piss off to some country with a theocratic state and good mental health services.
Well played NC.
Always flabbergasted why anyone would write something so vile and crazy.
Years ago I blogged about a situation on another blog of mine during my single days and ended up with an ugly little hairy troll. Slut and whore and such were just some of the words she tossed around regularly.
I ended up calling her out. I found her IP address, realized she blogged from her work place and behold, we figured out that it was the girlfriend of the friend of the guy I was fancying a fuck with.
I wrote her a nice letter. Publicly. On my blog. With IP Address and work info. It stopped immediately;)
Long story short: No one defines who you are but you yourself.
I try to live my life like that I think you do too!